Pope Frogbutt I
2005-05-23 01:02:37 UTC
[snupped my own stuff]
:>Hi KH,
:>
:>Good post, good question.
Thanks, Duey. Kewl to know that at least someone understands.
:>Why can't some people let it go?
This, to me, is the crux of the whole thing. It's a question still
unanswered, and it's why I raised the periscope and gave it another
shot.
:>I think it's because a number of folks think that
:>the very future of the BL groups may be
:>jeopardized by those who are deliberately trying
:>to disrupt the operation of the groups
:>themselves. To some extent I share that view.
To some extent, I also share that view. Butt... people have been
trying to disrupt these groups since their inception. What's happening
now isn't *really* all that different from what was happening five
years ago. With one exception...
:>This could be change of tactics by those who like
:>to see these groups disappear. Get everyone
:>distracted. As you are no doubt aware, this
:>'distraction tactic' has worked very well
:>politically in the U. S. Get working class
:>people worried about gay marriage so they won't
:>notice that they are headed for the poor house.
:>
:>Perhaps this is what's going on, maybe not. At
:>some point one would hope (as you seem to do)
:>that folks would grow tired of it and it would
:>end.
That's my hope. To me, looking back on it and having tired of it ages
ago, I have to wonder how long it'll be before everyone else does. And
I begin to wonder if I'll live long enough...
:>This is also a bit of a 'chicken and egg' problem
:>in the sense that to the extent there are 'sides'
:>one side has to stop responding, and see what
:>happens. So far neither what you are calling the
:>'consortium' nor Y-Not and his gaggle of groupies
:>seem willing to do that.
:>
:>Perhaps the Palestinian/Israeli fighting could be
:>a metaphor. At some point someone has to take
:>the risk of stopping.
:>
:>You have a lot of credibility among most folks
:>here. Why don't you suggest a 'cease-fire'.
Okeydokey, then FWIW I suggest "CEASE-FIRE."
:>No more contentious posts. No more attacks. No
:>more name calling, urine squirting, etc. There
:>will be gray areas and giving people the benefit
:>of good intentions, would require letting posts
:>in that middle ground go unanswered.
The whole point of a cease-fire is to stop, altogether. It requires
"letting go." It requires letting inane and purposely provocative and
disruptive posts pass, unanswered. At times, it requires a bit of
will-power.
:>Some people won't stop. They are to be ignored.
My hope is that a few people who've locked themselves into "won't
stop" mode WILL stop, before they reach the point of being ignored.
:>Out and out attacks can be responded to, but
:>folks would agree not to initiate same.
Out and out attacks are *exactly* what *should not* be responded to.
When a troll doesn't get what he wants, he escalates his attack. He
tries harder, to goad his target into replying. The *right* response
is to grit your teeth and totally ignore him.
:>The above is a proposed set of ground rules.
Well... I think I mighta offered an upset to the basic ground rules.
:>Would this work? It can only improve things.
What would work, and what I've been trying to say for months, is to
simply push the "Stop" button.
:>Who would sign up? I would.
I wish a few others would...
:>What about others? Would abc agree to stop
:>responding to every post?
I wish...
:> Would Mephi resist the
:>urge to body slam Y-Not yet again?
I wish even more...
:> I think they
:>would. My sense is that they are as sick of this
:>as anyone.
If so, then they would, at some point, give it up and stop. I'd dearly
love to see that happen.
You will never live long enough to see it happen, baby raper.:>Hi KH,
:>
:>Good post, good question.
Thanks, Duey. Kewl to know that at least someone understands.
:>Why can't some people let it go?
This, to me, is the crux of the whole thing. It's a question still
unanswered, and it's why I raised the periscope and gave it another
shot.
:>I think it's because a number of folks think that
:>the very future of the BL groups may be
:>jeopardized by those who are deliberately trying
:>to disrupt the operation of the groups
:>themselves. To some extent I share that view.
To some extent, I also share that view. Butt... people have been
trying to disrupt these groups since their inception. What's happening
now isn't *really* all that different from what was happening five
years ago. With one exception...
:>This could be change of tactics by those who like
:>to see these groups disappear. Get everyone
:>distracted. As you are no doubt aware, this
:>'distraction tactic' has worked very well
:>politically in the U. S. Get working class
:>people worried about gay marriage so they won't
:>notice that they are headed for the poor house.
:>
:>Perhaps this is what's going on, maybe not. At
:>some point one would hope (as you seem to do)
:>that folks would grow tired of it and it would
:>end.
That's my hope. To me, looking back on it and having tired of it ages
ago, I have to wonder how long it'll be before everyone else does. And
I begin to wonder if I'll live long enough...
:>This is also a bit of a 'chicken and egg' problem
:>in the sense that to the extent there are 'sides'
:>one side has to stop responding, and see what
:>happens. So far neither what you are calling the
:>'consortium' nor Y-Not and his gaggle of groupies
:>seem willing to do that.
:>
:>Perhaps the Palestinian/Israeli fighting could be
:>a metaphor. At some point someone has to take
:>the risk of stopping.
:>
:>You have a lot of credibility among most folks
:>here. Why don't you suggest a 'cease-fire'.
Okeydokey, then FWIW I suggest "CEASE-FIRE."
:>No more contentious posts. No more attacks. No
:>more name calling, urine squirting, etc. There
:>will be gray areas and giving people the benefit
:>of good intentions, would require letting posts
:>in that middle ground go unanswered.
The whole point of a cease-fire is to stop, altogether. It requires
"letting go." It requires letting inane and purposely provocative and
disruptive posts pass, unanswered. At times, it requires a bit of
will-power.
:>Some people won't stop. They are to be ignored.
My hope is that a few people who've locked themselves into "won't
stop" mode WILL stop, before they reach the point of being ignored.
:>Out and out attacks can be responded to, but
:>folks would agree not to initiate same.
Out and out attacks are *exactly* what *should not* be responded to.
When a troll doesn't get what he wants, he escalates his attack. He
tries harder, to goad his target into replying. The *right* response
is to grit your teeth and totally ignore him.
:>The above is a proposed set of ground rules.
Well... I think I mighta offered an upset to the basic ground rules.
:>Would this work? It can only improve things.
What would work, and what I've been trying to say for months, is to
simply push the "Stop" button.
:>Who would sign up? I would.
I wish a few others would...
:>What about others? Would abc agree to stop
:>responding to every post?
I wish...
:> Would Mephi resist the
:>urge to body slam Y-Not yet again?
I wish even more...
:> I think they
:>would. My sense is that they are as sick of this
:>as anyone.
If so, then they would, at some point, give it up and stop. I'd dearly
love to see that happen.
:>Would Y-Not and his various personae stop posting
:>the kinds of posts that keep everyone wound up?
Nope. It's his "mission." As long as he gets responses, he'll keep on.
IF he's ultimately totally ignored, he'll eventually fade away and try
some other tactic.
:>Would the long winded, attack disguised as
:>"help", disingenuous b.s. come to a halt?
(sic)
:> Let's put it to the test.
Please.
:>Who would agree to stop the 'tit for tat'
:>posting? Who will not?
I'd like to hope that everyone will. But hopes aren't always
fulfilled.
:>Test the hypothesis that Y-Not will not stop.
Trust me. Just once. Even for a moment. It works. Really...
:> If
:>he does, I suspect the tone will change markedly
:>for the better. abc can spend his time posting
:>his wonderful pix and reminiscences and Mephi can
:>enchant us with verse and witty observations on
:>life at the carvery.
I'd love more than anything to see that happen!!!!!
:>But if some folks won't stop disrupting then a
:>next question arises.
:>
:>What can group members do about those who
:>continue to disrupt? Don't feed the trolls is
:>good guidance.
Don't feed the trolls has been long-proven as more than "good
guidance." It's the only solution.
It won't work though.:>the kinds of posts that keep everyone wound up?
Nope. It's his "mission." As long as he gets responses, he'll keep on.
IF he's ultimately totally ignored, he'll eventually fade away and try
some other tactic.
:>Would the long winded, attack disguised as
:>"help", disingenuous b.s. come to a halt?
(sic)
:> Let's put it to the test.
Please.
:>Who would agree to stop the 'tit for tat'
:>posting? Who will not?
I'd like to hope that everyone will. But hopes aren't always
fulfilled.
:>Test the hypothesis that Y-Not will not stop.
Trust me. Just once. Even for a moment. It works. Really...
:> If
:>he does, I suspect the tone will change markedly
:>for the better. abc can spend his time posting
:>his wonderful pix and reminiscences and Mephi can
:>enchant us with verse and witty observations on
:>life at the carvery.
I'd love more than anything to see that happen!!!!!
:>But if some folks won't stop disrupting then a
:>next question arises.
:>
:>What can group members do about those who
:>continue to disrupt? Don't feed the trolls is
:>good guidance.
Don't feed the trolls has been long-proven as more than "good
guidance." It's the only solution.
:>Liberal use of kill filters may be one answer.
:>Totally ignoring them may be another. The
:>discipline of not responding to the froggy
:>trolling has been, for the most part, exemplary.
:>
:>The problem with the purposively disruptive
:>posters (or at least some of them) is that they
:>are not like the normal trolls who seem limited
:>to the the 'die kiddie fucker' vocabulary. They
:>are more disarming. Some are quite gifted at
:>drawing people into the rhetorical trap.
And one is especially good at it...
:>But enough. Why anticipate a negative outcome?
:>Surely everyone save a few miscreants want the
:>groups to flourish and for it to become the
:>community it can be. Right?
Count my vote as a "Yes."
:>I don't know if this post advances the issue or
:>is just more B.S. Feel free to comment,
:>question, criticize. Personally I welcome
:>constructive commentary. I certainly don't
:>pretend to have all the answers.
:>
:>However, I'd just as soon not be personally
:>attacked and called stupid, ignorant, uneducated,
:>whacko and the like, but if I am, no matter. I
:>know who I am and that stuff just slides off.
:>It actually says more about the attacker...
Dunno if anyone noticed, but I did a little plaything in sworpville
not long ago. I caught a post that was particularly stupid, and I
messed with it and pointed out how laughable it was. "Someone"
launched a really ugly attack in response to it, which I was
expecting, and I totally ignored him. The thread ended, right then. He
hates that.
Damn, your good.:>Totally ignoring them may be another. The
:>discipline of not responding to the froggy
:>trolling has been, for the most part, exemplary.
:>
:>The problem with the purposively disruptive
:>posters (or at least some of them) is that they
:>are not like the normal trolls who seem limited
:>to the the 'die kiddie fucker' vocabulary. They
:>are more disarming. Some are quite gifted at
:>drawing people into the rhetorical trap.
And one is especially good at it...
:>But enough. Why anticipate a negative outcome?
:>Surely everyone save a few miscreants want the
:>groups to flourish and for it to become the
:>community it can be. Right?
Count my vote as a "Yes."
:>I don't know if this post advances the issue or
:>is just more B.S. Feel free to comment,
:>question, criticize. Personally I welcome
:>constructive commentary. I certainly don't
:>pretend to have all the answers.
:>
:>However, I'd just as soon not be personally
:>attacked and called stupid, ignorant, uneducated,
:>whacko and the like, but if I am, no matter. I
:>know who I am and that stuff just slides off.
:>It actually says more about the attacker...
Dunno if anyone noticed, but I did a little plaything in sworpville
not long ago. I caught a post that was particularly stupid, and I
messed with it and pointed out how laughable it was. "Someone"
launched a really ugly attack in response to it, which I was
expecting, and I totally ignored him. The thread ended, right then. He
hates that.
My point: I'd rather not be called every name in the book either, but
given the source, I don't see even the worst of it as worthy of
disrupting my plans for dinner.
:>Anyway, thanks for sticking your head up and
:>writing a provocative post. Let's see if it can
:>lead somewhere. Please don't put the periscope
:>back down quite yet. Your contributions are
:>welcome....at least by me.
Thanks, Duey! I'll continue doing an "up periscope" now and then to
see what's happening. However... real life is annoyingly busy. I've
got stuff to do, and playing in Usenet isn't at the top of the list.
But then, it's way above the bottom of the list...
Fucking coward.given the source, I don't see even the worst of it as worthy of
disrupting my plans for dinner.
:>Anyway, thanks for sticking your head up and
:>writing a provocative post. Let's see if it can
:>lead somewhere. Please don't put the periscope
:>back down quite yet. Your contributions are
:>welcome....at least by me.
Thanks, Duey! I'll continue doing an "up periscope" now and then to
see what's happening. However... real life is annoyingly busy. I've
got stuff to do, and playing in Usenet isn't at the top of the list.
But then, it's way above the bottom of the list...
Take care, and see ya.
KH NP-b54
"Artificial Intelligence will never be
a match for natural stupidity."
(Stolen)
--KH NP-b54
"Artificial Intelligence will never be
a match for natural stupidity."
(Stolen)
Meet the f'loons:
Lady Motown: http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=185542
Deggie: http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=181922
Pam: http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=180995
Kenny: http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=181357
John: http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=181326
Keesha: http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=181273
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internet.